Thursday, November 19, 2009

Condemned "apparition" in Cleveland is going into grand mal

This is laughable.  It reminds me of when Toto exposed Oz. Since the Bishop of Cleveland condemned the apparition claims associated with Holy Love Ministries as "not supernatural", the messages have been crashing the discernment meter.   Here's today's message. 

I'm way past my bedtime. Lest our less catechized readers be scandalized by this message, please offer catechesis via combox which exposes the many errors in this message. I'll moderate comments when I can so please be patient.  If several people point out the same errors, that's ok. 
St. Thomas Aquinas says: "Praise be to Jesus."

"I spoke to you recently about 'blind' obedience. Today I'd like to explore with you the term itself - 'blind' obedience."

"Blind means without vision, as you know. 'Blind' obedience, then, means the soul obeys without insight, as to the why or as to the consequences of his actions. He obeys out of supposed respect for title or authority he is under. Sadly, today much authority is compromised on a human level for love of money, power and control. 'Blind' obedience does not take this human factor into account."

"In the Church itself, the Pope is infallible, but no one else. This is where human error comes into play. People often do not realize that they have a choice. They do not realize that not everything is infallible. They do not realize the graces they are missing for themselves and the world through 'blind' obedience."

"I have come today so that the world might see again the joys of the fruits of the Holy Spirit and open their hearts to the Truth of Holy Love."
The seizure started yesterday after days of tremors (click to enlarge)

See my original post from yesterday: Condemned Apparition Goes Spastic

The obedient are not held captive by Holy Mother Church; it is the disobedient who are held captive by the world!


RC said...

We're obliged to obey even unreasonable orders of religious superiors unless the order (a) is outside the competence of the the superior; or (b) the order directs us to actively do something sinful.

Neither condition applies in this case, so there is no legitimate disobedience; therefore, the message is not really from St. Thomas.

However -- and I think this is good news -- we can also conclude that the locutions are not diabolical in origin. The Devil is not stupid, and would present more plausible material to fool people.

Diane M. Korzeniewski, OCDS said...


I was thinking the same thing. This is manufactured.

While Satan may not be driving this bus, the door has been opened for him to navigate.

This is a big money loser for those behind these manufactured error-laden messages.

Adoro said...

I beg to differ, at least a little. I do agree that Satan is more intelligent, but having come face-to-face with him during my occult years, at a point where I recognized him for what he was, I also realized he is just as he was in the garden of Eden, and he has remained in that same state, while the Redemption has made us more intelligent.

Satan is prideful and falls for the low point of the stupidity of humanity, unrecognizing of the heights to which God gives us in intelligence and, more importantly, discernment. He doesn't understand the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and so he is limited to perceiving merely natural intelligence. That is my experience. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm not speaking Doctrine or Dogma here.

In any case, I DO believe that Maureen and her husband are the fraudmongers here, they have a little theology and little understanding and take advantage of the fact that we live in a very uncatechized age. We live in an age where people are seeking God, and she pretends to have Him in her very palm. The adulation being poured out to her are part of a psychological "need" from a probably abusive childhood.

Satan IS driving that bus of HL (thus the initials without the vowels), but ONLY because Maureen and her followers gave him the wheel and told him to drive as deeply into the Abyss as he can before the legitimate Faithful stop him and send ropes down to rescue the survivors who realize mid-air that this bus is headed to Hell, not Heaven.

And that is my commentary on THAT. The "chart" allegedly by St. Thomas Aquinas is so desperately stupid that I don't think I can contain my ongoing hysterical laughter.


Sorry *ahem*

Marra said...

Can someone please show me where Holy Love Ministry portrays itself as a Catholic ministry and under the authority of Cleveland's bishop? From what the sign out front of thier shrine says, it is an Ecumenical ministry. Ecumenical means all people of all faiths. Our present Pope often speaks of being ecumenical. You will know it by its fruits.

Diane M. Korzeniewski, OCDS said...

Allow me, Marra...

It doesn't matter whether it claims to be Catholic or ecumenical. It is drawing a large number of Catholics.

The shepherd has a duty to protect the sheep and this is what his decree does. It tells the sheep that there are spiritual dangers involved with this "ecumenical" ministry, which just so happens to involve apparitions of those who are historically.....Catholic.

It is drawing Catholics and that is why he has spoken.

Mary said...

To comment on Marra's post:

You are making a false assumption that the bishop's has authority only over official Catholic Ministries. It's irrelevant whether the ministry labels itself Catholic, Ecumenical, Bahai, or whatever. The person claiming to have locutions, who is presenting them to the public as truth received from Heaven, IS Catholic, is she not? Then she, personally, IS under the Church's authority and answerable to her bishop. "Ministries" do not have supernatural locutions - individuals do.

How many countless saints and mystics were told by their Bishop to ignore locutions and visions, remain silent, and even told not to do what Jesus or Mary told them to do!
When the saints went to Jesus or Mary, often in tears of frustration, and asked what they should do to accomplish what God wanted when the Church put up obstacles, were they ever told to disobey their bishop? Never! They were told to obey the bishop and trust that God would see that everything worked out as He wished.

Visionaries are supposed to have are not exempt from being crazy or deceived!

And the people listening to visionaries are supposed to recognize that sometimes people are mentally unstable, victims of Satanic deception, or even - gasp!- bad people who tell lies for their own gain.

It is understandable that we would be horrified to dismiss any word that Jesus or his Saints were gracious enough to send us. But Jesus knows that its a Bishop's job to vet such things. It was Jesus' idea to put the Church here to handle stuff like this.

Jesus never commanded us to await his word through visionaries and heed them. He did tell us that whoever listens to his Apostles - now our bishops- listens to Him. And yes, it was just because of the apostle's position of authority. When Peter had the last word at the Council of Jerusalem and everyone debating shut up, it wasn't because Peter was brilliant, or because everyone suddenly came to a consensus. It was because of Peter's authority.

So if a locutionist says that Mary is telling us we don't have to listen to a bishop who is exercising his legitimate authority - they we don't have to be theologians to figure out that this wasn't the Mary we know speaking!

Diane M. Korzeniewski, OCDS said...

I have received a couple of comments in this post and in my original post on this subject from people claiming to have Master's degrees in theology.

These people feel that there is nothing in the messages which is in error.

I would have published and addressed these comments directly had it not been for the promotion of Holy Love Ministries also found in the same comments.

Ray Conte of Catholic Planet and I are on different ends of the spectrum when it comes to Medjugorje, and perhaps some others. I disagree in several areas with him on his promotion of Medjugorje as "credible".

That disclaimer aside, the evaluation he has done on certain "messages" coming out of Holy Love is excellent. It was written in March of 2008, before the decree issued by Bishop Lennon.

I would invite all those who claim to have a better understanding than the bishop of Cleveland to read through the details of this analysis of "messages".

Mary V. said...

Regarding the comments of Marra on the "ecumenical nature" of Holy Hill: Not so long ago, Holy Hill was not being presented as anything but Catholic. When the Bishop began to give admonition to the alleged "locutionist", the "apparition" quickly encouraged the ministry to emphasize that it was ecumenical in nature, rather than Catholic. It was a classic "bait and switch". At this point, all of my internal alarms went off. And it was very clear that the locutionist had no intention of following the direction of the Bishop.Diane & Mary's comments are excellent in response.

Nick said...


Oh man, that "message" is hilarious! I mean a graph? Seriously? Just, wow. Amazingly hilarious. Thank you for sharing! :)