Saturday, April 17, 2010

Al Kresta interviews Patrick Madrid and Fr. Neil Buchlein on Medjugorje

-UPDATED on April 17th, 2010
-April 18, 2010: Link to Ratzinger article on public/private revelations fixed

On April 15, 2010, Al Kresta of Ave Maria Radio and host of Kresta in the Afternoon, interviewed Catholic Apologist and radio show host Patrick Madrid (Medjugorje skeptic) and Rev. Neil Buchlein of West Virginia (priest who has visited 17 times since 2003).  The subject.... you guessed it: Medjugorje.

Go listen to the audio at Pat's blogFr. Neil Buchlein and I discuss pros and cons of Medjugorje

- Al also has a thread for discussion on this

EDIT: April 17, 2010

Fr.  Buchlein has a post up about this interview that is rather surprising in many ways (emphases mind in bold; comments bracketed in red).
This is the tape of yesterday afternoon's show. I was contacted yesterday afternoon and was asked if I would be available to answer some questions regarding Medjugorje and the Vatican Commission. I was very surprised to hear at 5PM when I tuned in that Patrick Madrid ( a very "open-minded skeptic" regarding Medjugorje) was also on the show. I was not told this by the station manager when I accepted the invitation [nor was Patrick told that Rev. Buchlein would be on the show. Al Kresta, being the fair-minded man that he is, allowed both sides to be presented]. Patrick has been very outspoken regarding Medjugorje and has a strong following. He prides himself in having read many books and articles about Medjugorje. Unfortunately he has never been there but I do hope that one day he may change his mind and and make a pilgrimmage and really see and experiece the "fruits." [Does one need to go to Bethlehem to believe Jesus was born? I lived in the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno from 1980 - 1983 and was discerning a vocation with the order of Franciscans responsible for the parish of St. James before it all happened in June of 1981.  I saw good fruits.  I turned skeptic in 2005 after not turning a blind-eye to bad fruits upon reading several documents from the diocese.  I felt that the local bishop's objections were very reasonable, and this came after reading books by the chroniclers, Fr. Laurentin and Fr. Rupcic.  Moving on...]. This would only happen if he were to be truly "open-minded" and leave his skepticism at home or at the bottom of apparition hill. I'm not sure if Patrick knows what the phrase "open-minded" really means but listen to the interview [Oh, Father - what disappointing thing to hear out of a priest]. If we ever do see the day when the apparitions of Medjugorje are fully approved I'll be interested in seeing if Patrick has been converted or if he will continue to wallow in his "open-mindedness" and I will continue to pray for him. [Converted?  Converted to what? Is belief in "Our Lady of Medjugorje" required for salvation? Setting aside the condescending tone, is such a statement in harmony with the Catechism of the Catholic Church?  What does the Church teach about private revelations? See below]
In the interview, at one point, Fr. Buchlein acknowledges that you don't have to believe in Fatima or Lourdes, but he then obliges Patrick, in his blogpost above, to believe in Medjugorje if it is approved?

There is an excellent piece written by then Cardinal Ratzinger on the difference between public and private revelations and their theological status.  In it, he makes clear:

  • The authority of private revelations is essentially different from that of the definitive public Revelation
  • Private revelation is a help to this faith, and shows its credibility precisely by leading me back to the definitive public Revelation.
  • It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use. The criterion for the truth and value of a private revelation is therefore its orientation to Christ himself.
Further references Private Revelation:

Te Deum Laudamus! Home

The obedient are not held captive by Holy Mother Church; it is the disobedient who are held captive by the world!


Nick said...

I didn't listen to all of it but from what I heard it was a great interview. Almost too great, in fact. I think I'll listen to it again.

Also, I made a chart on apparitions for those who wish to compare Laus, Lourdes, Fatima, and Medjugorje. I hope it's okay to post it.

Apparition Chart

Louis Bélanger said...


Dear Nick,

I had a look at your interesting Apparition chart. Your "6,000+" "apparition visitations" in and outside Medjugorje seems to be very "minimalist".

When you compare it to the counting made by Bishop Ratko Peric in 2007 , would it not be appropriate to "update" your number to 40,000+ in 2010?

I certainly agree with Mgr Peric when he writes:

"Please don’t ask me about the accuracy of these statistics, because a thousand “apparitions” more or less, have no role to play here! The hierarchical Church at various levels: diocesan, national and Holy See, hasn’t accepted a single apparition as authentic."

A thousand "more or less have no role to play, here", but as we live in a world that adores the numbers --- see my answer at [], there is a big difference between 6,000 and 40,000. And according to the logic of Paul Baylis, 40,000 would be untruer than 6,000!...

Yet you may use another "statistical methodology". If it is the case, I would like to know more about it.



Diane M. Korzeniewski, OCDS said...

I'm in agreement with Louis. If the diocese has the number at 40,000+, then that should be the number used.

Nick said...

This is why Medjugorje supporters tell you to go to Medjugorje to feel its peace and know it's true.

Throughout the conference, Medjugorje luminaries including visionary Marija (Pavlovic)and her husband Paolo Lunetti, Sister Janja Boras, and Father Robert Faricy were highlighted. The importance of traveling to Medjugorje was emphasized to those attending the conference. The general theme was that no one could get the full effect of Medjugorje unless he traveled (and returned regularly) to experience it first-hand, at the site. At the conference, Lynn Hoffman had flyers distributed that listed seven Medjugorje tours during the next four months. (There were 15 tours to Medjugorje that had taken place in the earlier part of the year) Her website listed 21 Year 2001 "pilgrimages" to Medjugorje. If the pilgrimages averaged 30 persons each, at about $1,500 each, that would be a gross close to one million dollars per year for Hoffman's FIAT travel agency.

In short, it's a marketing scheme.

It makes you wonder, too, how many so-called Medjugorje supporters are travel agents in disguise and how many so-called pro-Medjugorje websites are made by travel agencies. Because given the way the media likes to promote things online, it's no far stretch to say some will deceive people just to make a few extra million dollars.

Nick said...

Here is the updated new chart: Apparition Chart